In the mid 1990’s I lived in Manchester, and moved there with high hopes of lots of interesting singing possibilities. Looking back on that time now, I am still baffled and dismayed by the fact that, fresh from a choral award at Cambridge, I never found a place there in a good, small choir that met frequently, despite four years of trying.
There was a great shortage of such choirs, for which I suggest some possible reasons below. Places in the choirs that existed were jealously guarded and rarely fell vacant. At the time I moved away, neither the Manchester Chorale nor the Maia Singers had had a soprano vacancy for some three years. With hindsight, I was wasting my time even enquiring about joining them! The William Byrd Singers went for two years without a vacancy before I auditioned, unsuccessfully (I was competing against someone returning to the choir after an absence, and against a vocal student at the RNCM). I did however sing with the John Powell Singers, a chamber choir who performed occasional concerts, services and radio broadcasts.
I’ve sometimes come across singers of about my standard who held down places in more than one of these choirs. I therefore estimate that during 1992-96 the soprano places in the chamber choirs I knew about were filled by no more than 30 singers, in an urban area with a population of millions!
I realised how limited Manchester’s chamber choir scene had been when I moved, and had no difficulty in finding singing at the right level in Bath or Bristol. I also suspect that had I been a tenor or bass, I’d have found a place in a choir of this type in Manchester just as easily. Perhaps I was just unlucky, as I’ve heard of other singers having similar experiences elsewhere.
I attribute the shortage of chamber choirs partly to the strong North of England tradition of large choral societies. Also possibly to a lack of suitable performance venues. (Early in the 20th century almost all the parish churches in Manchester city centre were closed and demolished. No one thought of turning one of them into a small concert hall, similar to St. George’s in Bristol). Or maybe to low audiences for chamber choir concerts.
If anyone who was singing in Manchester at this time reads this, I’d be interested to hear their comments. Why were there so few chamber choirs, and such a low turnover of sopranos? Did none of them ever move away from the area or take time out to have a baby? Were the choirs’ waiting lists for auditions organised or chaotic? Was I trying the wrong choirs? Were there others which would have suited me, but whose publicity I never saw? Is the situation better now?
I have now also written about my experiences with Manchester’s church choirs.
I’ve closed this item to comments now but I received an interesting comment on it here.
Hey there.
As a bass, I have to say that my experience is different. Being a soprano takes a great deal more sticktoitiveness. Now, I know nothing of the geographic differences you speak of. I could let you know the differences between New York city and Chicago, for example, but that is probably no help.
Peace,
Hi
I am an Alto and moved to Manchester from Bedford 2 years ago with a hope of broadening my musical horizons and I haven’t had any luck. I was going to audition for the Halle choir then decided not to as I much prefer to sing with chamber choirs. I have been trying for practically the whole time to get into the Manchester Cathedral Cantata choir to no avail. It seems Christopher Stokes doesn’t want to know! I’m really at a loss! I am a good singer! Grade 8 standard (will be taking my diploma soon), good at sight-reading. I don’t know what the problem is! Have you any ideas?!?!
Cheers.
The three chamber choirs I mentioned (Maia Singers, William Byrd Singers, Manchester Chorale) are all still in existence. The Manchester Chorale at least has a different régime in charge these days, so their treatment of prospective singers may have changed too.
I don’t know about any new choirs which may have joined them to alleviate the shortage. The places where choirs used to advertise were the Central library and a music shop at the West end of Deansgate (I forget the name).
I sang for a couple of years with the Cathedral Cantata Choir. In those days it was conducted by Stuart Beer and I had no difficulty getting an audition, although he thought it would not be challenging enough for me and recommended I try some others, with the results described above! It’s quite large (about 100 singers) so one singer more wouldn’t mess up the numbers and could be a great asset if they were good. I suggest that you simply turn up at a Tuesday evening rehearsal and introduce yourself. Auditions used to be held just before the rehearsals.
Good luck!
Hi – can you tell me who runs the Manchester Chorale these days. I can’t find anything on the net about them …
The Manchester Chorale’s website is at http://www.manchesterchorale.org.uk. They clearly take a pride in the choir’s history and have recorded it in some detail, so perhaps one day I should try and check whether there actually were soprano vacancies during the 3+ years I was on the waiting list! I was offered a place in the choir, but the offer was withdrawn when it turned out that I wasn’t free to go on a foreign tour the following month. I never got another chance to audition. I still have somewhere a fax from the musical director, dated two years later, saying there were no soprano vacancies but I would be contacted when one next arose. [I have since heard from a trustee of the choir that the choir’s membership was indeed very stable at this time. Also that around the time I moved away the organisation of the choir changed, giving more power to the committee and trustees, and that in consequence what happened to me at my audition & after shouldn’t happen again].
hi There
i know what you mean. I looked for ages to find a decent choir and I finally found one when I was 11. it was the Manchester Boys choir. I stayed in it till the age of 18. It was well known by all the members that this was very unique chamber choir and was in fact going for 20 years. then the choir master got arrested and it went down hill form then so i left.
i reccomend buying a CD you wont regret it.
It was a great privilidge i toured in 17 countries performed in formt of orchestras presidnets and many top singers became head choristor then top soloist for the T & B section
Good Times
Still looking for a decent choir to join…..Cant find One in manchester at all
Take Care
James Hewitt
XxxX
I once went to hear the Manchester Boys’ Choir perform a concert in the Free Trade Hall (the son of a colleague sang in the choir). They were indeed impressive, but not an option for me to sing in of course!
I auditioned for the Manchester Chorale and started in Sept04.The Musical Director is now Laura Jellicoe.Does anyone out there remember a choir over 25 years ago called The Manchester Youth Choir which was conducted by Ron Davies ,if so ,I would love to hear from you,especially if you sang in that choir.
I came to Manchester university in the late 80’s and started singing with the Manchester University Gilbert and Sullivan Society (MUGSS) and also with the Choir and Orchestra Society (CAOS). Obviously these societies are specifically targetted at students, however, since graduating I have continued singing with both these societies and have known a number of non students join both. They are a reasonable standard, though they do not generally have a strong continuing membership, though MUGSS has about 15 to 20 ‘Old Soaks’ as long serving members.
There are a number of Amateur Operatic societies in the area, all easily found in internet searches. However, your query regards Choirs, the following are my more recent experiences.
I have recently been a member of the St Annes Hospice Festival Choir which is a large choir (300 voices approx) who’s main aim is fundraising, and they do this extremely well. Reasonable standard, large pieces in some of Manchesters larger venues (including the Bridgewater Hall, RNCM and Manchester Cathedral) and fun as well, especially their one day workshops which they do approximately twice a year.
I am currently a member of Maia Singers who are performing regularly, still with a (relative) shortage of tenors and basses, though they have had a few soprano and alto’s join whilst I have been there too – I think its more an issue of balance. Potentially, if you are a soprano/alto and promise to bring a tenor/bass as well then you might get considered more favourably!?
Maia Singers are encouraging school children to join youth choirs too. The Singers run the Stockport Youth Choir and have close links with a few of Stockports Primary and Secondary Schools who all join in an Annual Concert at Stockport Town Hall. This is because there appears to be very little encouragement within our schools for children to take up singing (or music etc.) as a pastime. A view that many people will agree with. If the younger generation are not encouraged to sing the membership of all choirs is likely to get older and decline in numbers.
In addition to the choirs that have already been mentioned on this thread, and leaving aside the various church choirs, there are a number of other choirs in the Manchester Area, including Angelicus (female voice), Beauty for Ashes Gospel Choir, Warrington Male Voice Choir, The Barnby Choir, St Georges Singers, Alteri, Altrincham Choral Society, Congleton Choral Society, Debrose Choir (female voice), The Cheshire Chord Company (Ladies barbershop), The Rainy City Chorus (Barbershop), Manchester Bach Choir, Manchester Gospel Choir, Manchester Girls Choir, Gerrard Male Voice Choir, Manchester Chamber Choir, Mancunion Singers, Philharmonic Choir of Manchester, Sale Choral Society, Salford Choral Society, Manchester Community Choir, Oldham Youth Choir, Rochdale Youth Choir and others. I am not familiar with the work of each of these choirs or the standard at which they sing, all will appeal to different people of different ages, at different standards and with different tastes in music. Most can be found by an internet search which should get you an insight into each choir and in touch with relevant contacts if you are interested.
I hope that this is of use.
I suspect some of these choirs have sprung up in the decade since I moved away from Manchester, as I don’t recognise their names. I got my information from the notice boards in the central library and the music shop in Deansgate, plus just asking around. (The Web was in its infancy then, though I myself had a page!) Some of the other choirs in the list I would have discounted on the grounds of size, standard, location or speciality.
I did once join the Congleton Choral Society for a Cathedral weekend in Durham a few years back!
[comment removed at request of one of the choirs mentioned above. I suspect it was written by the previous DoM of that choir, for whom I once auditioned.]
[response to deleted comment removed] But it says something about the surplus of singers over vacancies in Manchester’s choirs that non-musical factors played such a part in the auditioning process. I doubt that they would count for so much round here.
Anyway, I’ve now got some of the answers I wanted. It seems that there really weren’t any choirs of the kind I was looking for that I didn’t know about, but that one or two have arisen since to fill the gap I described. I’d be interested though to hear comments about Manchester’s church choirs; rather depressingly, no one’s come along to contradict me.
I’m afraid directors of music are often un-ethical in how they deal with singers, because it’s easy to get away with it. Maybe now it is more possible for singers to share experiences this will get better.
I have done a bit more research, and it’s clear that around the time I left Manchester the problem of the drastic shortage of chamber choirs was finally beginning to be addressed. Altèri was founded in 1995, Duodecimo in 1998 and the Manchester Chamber Choir in 2002. I would have been happy to audition for any of these.